Freya Ward (00:43.443)
We are here to record our first episode of B2B Marketers: Off the Record and I'm so
excited!
Chloe Addis (00:50.571)
I'm so excited too. It's been a long time coming. I think, as you've said in the past, so
many of our conversations happen off the record. And I just wish that a lot of them
are recorded because that's where we get the real nuggets and the real juicy pieces
of information. And we should have just done this a long time ago, I think.
Freya Ward (01:13.971)
I completely agree. mean, there are some things I'd like to stay off the record, but
there are definitely some golden nuggets that we haven't captured because we've
not been in this format. So I'm so excited to be co-hosting this with you. I'm so
excited to have some really interesting organic conversations and yeah, to expand
our network and actually…
Chloe Addis (01:17.615)
You
Freya Ward (01:39.349)
almost officiate some of those conversations into a format that we can share with a
wider audience.
Chloe Addis (01:44.247)
Yeah, 100%. So digging into that, we should probably explain exactly what this is
going to look like because we're both here and we have this history. We've worked
together for a long time and been friends outside that as well. So we have this that
we knew that our conversations worked and we'd like to record them. But this isn't
actually always going to be like that. We're kind of co-hosting almost side by side in a
separate capacity where we will…
Chloe Addis (02:10.851)
host different guests from across B2B marketing and interview them along the same
sort of structure with five questions that we kind of repeat. So yeah, what was the
idea behind that as well?
Freya Ward (02:25.963)
just think consistency. So these are conversations that we have with lot of B2B
marketers on kind of a one-to-one basis. And to actually bring that to a wider
audience, I think is really important. And to give B2B marketers a voice and have
that peer to peer relation, I guess, actually, I've seen this change, has anyone else
seen it change? For example, we kind of want to get a little bit under the hood of
B2B marketing, what's evolving, what's changing.
Freya Ward (02:54.989)
on kind of a wide spectrum and get to know some of those senior or practitioner level
marketers in the B2B tech space on a deeper level. The idea behind, I mean, we
back and forth on how do we get this to market and how do we actually utilize not
only our resources but our own experiences to get this to an audience and…
Freya Ward (03:18.997)
and to have relatable conversations. And I think co-hosting is the way forward. I'm
sad that we won't be only recording our own conversations because as you said,
we've worked together for so long. We've worked in two different companies together
now and we're friends outside of that and have been for many, many years. We don't
want to put the audience through the pressure of having to listen to us like a therapy
session week on week. But I think by co-hosting, we can divide and conquer and we
can…
Chloe Addis (03:27.151)
you
Chloe Addis (03:46.788)
Mm.
Freya Ward (03:47.405)
we can match the personalities of the guests as well. is it a more, know, do they
want to be more challenged? Do they want to have more of a peer conversation?
Yeah, I think it should make for a really interesting dynamic and an interesting listen,
hopefully.
Chloe Addis (04:03.213)
Yeah, 100%. I think it's exactly that way. You have, you know, you're exposed to
these client conversations all of the time and there is a lot that's sort of, okay, well off
the record and a lot of like, this is the thinking behind the campaign. This is the
strategy. And so actually if we can uncover a little bit of that without making it about
their campaign and their specific context, it's kind of like leave the context at the door
and then come in and talk about like.
Chloe Addis (04:31.363)
the why and like, you know, what's what you're trying to achieve the bigger picture.
And what people are like cottoned on to as well. I think one of our questions is really
focused on like, what's what's one belief that's changed with you and like, how is
this? What like, how is it transforming over time? How is it changing? And what's the
new thing? And that's just what we find when we talk about marketing all of the time
is one.
Chloe Addis (04:57.323)
month it's this and the next month it's that and it's completely changed and you just
have to be so like your ear to the ground the whole time. So actually this should be a
really good like finger on the pulse type podcast as who we're talking to what week
and what's going on with probably AI let's face it is one of the biggest thing that is
changing the landscape for us so.
Chloe Addis (05:24.141)
Yeah, I'm really excited to kick off and get going with it.
Freya Ward (05:27.585)
Yeah, me too. And I think by having the structure of the same sort of five questions,
obviously, well, anyone that knows Chloe and I knows that we both like going off on
tangents and we start off a conversation on one thing and then we move in a slightly
different direction. But by having the formality of the five questions that we're gonna
ask everybody, we should start to uncover patterns and trends and themes and, you
know, one of our questions is about what…
Freya Ward (05:54.879)
is one thing in marketing, a bet that you are making within your marketing plan that's
making you feel a little bit uncomfortable this year. And I think we can, by asking
these kind of slightly spicy questions, and like you said, context at the door, we're not
looking for trade secrets in this podcast, but instead it's actually, I feel really
uncomfortable that I'm shifting 90 % of my PPC budget away from PPC without an
alternative by way of example.
Chloe Addis (06:20.601)
mm hmm
Freya Ward (06:22.349)
That's something that we've talked about a lot, kind of off line. But you know, it's
something like that is, is gonna hopefully resonate. And if other people can think, oh,
okay, other people are also feeling uncomfortable about this or someone at this tech
company that I'm listening to through off the record is making this big change. It
doesn't feel as isolating and as scary.
Chloe Addis (06:25.423)
This is very close to the bone
Freya Ward (06:49.889)
And I think, if we can get the consistency with the questions, I'm excited to just hear
what's gonna come of the answers.
Freya Ward (06:57.032)
Let me kick one off with you because we're gonna start the top of this podcast every
single time with the question of, I mean, we're millennial marketers, right? So we've
been in this game a little bit of time, more time than we'd like to admit. What is one
belief in B2B marketing that has changed your mind in the last 12 months?
Chloe Addis (07:20.591)
Okay, so core beliefs. mean, I think that I've always said that marketing is common
sense and that's probably underrating a lot of the skills that I have to be able to kind
of discern and prioritise and things like this. that's, it's just…
Chloe Addis (07:40.983)
I just think that AI is changing everything. I think, I mean, maybe that's, maybe it's
not really changed because that's still the human element that you meet, that you
need when working with AI as copilot. And that's kind of, I suppose the accepted
wisdom now is that yes, you can use it, but you've got to be working with it, you
know, no garbage in, no garbage out. But it's, I guess it's that experience level that…
Chloe Addis (08:08.911)
is changing because you don't need, guess you can come into it without, you know
some of the secrets of content, you can get that out there without having a whole
back history of how many years experience, 15 years experience of marketing that
we've got. You can do all of that research and have it kind of put in front of you. And
so, yeah.
Chloe Addis (08:33.891)
I mean, I guess I'm not saying that you don't need experience, but it's just, it's the
way in which that has fundamentally changed. You don't need like so much of.
Chloe Addis (08:49.409)
Yeah, I guess. I don't know where I'm going.
Freya Ward (08:52.735)
like lived lived
Freya Ward (08:53.735)
in experience, do you mean or like the instinctive experience? Because I could argue
that and say, actually, I think with the introduction of AI as a copilot as an assist or
whatever it might be, however you're using AI, if you're not applying a level of instinct
and time spent experience, like lived in experience to the information that's being
displayed to you, then you run the risk of
Freya Ward (09:19.691)
believing the hallucinations or not implementing something necessarily in the right
way. Like if we're just going into an automation spiral, actually, there's such value in
that lived in experience. So I know what I agree with a lot of what you're saying in the
sense AI, I've changed my mind on AI in the last 12 months and how it can positively
impact because like 12 months ago, we'd be saying
Chloe Addis (09:21.55)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (09:34.145)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (09:41.303)
Yes. Yeah.
Freya Ward (09:46.349)
Are we even going to have a job anymore? AI is coming for it. Robots are going to
run the marketing plan and everything else. And I think there's some really cool
examples of how AI is actually positively impacting and potentially providing an
opportunity for the youth.
Chloe Addis (09:48.751)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (10:01.503)
the youth of today, the youth, the green marketers that are coming into the industry
that maybe don't have that exposure that we had like in office listening, joining
meetings that you wouldn't otherwise join if you weren't physically, you know, invited
into a boardroom to take minutes and things like that. That's where we cut our teeth,
right? So maybe there's, yeah, there's there's pros and cons, but my my
Chloe Addis (10:05.816)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (10:19.204)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (10:27.243)
My confidence in AI has shifted in a positive direction in the last 12 months. Still
terrifies me, not gonna lie.
Chloe Addis (10:31.843)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (10:36.141)
I mean, there's so many different avenues that it can go in, isn't there? So it's like,
yeah, you have to be able to use it with the ability to understand if the answer that it's
giving you is close to what you should expect. And I think that part does only come
from experience. However, it speeds up the ability to get that experience. yeah, I
think that that's kind of what…
Chloe Addis (11:04.695)
what has changed, it just continues to you. Like, like you said, our opinion of it in
general has changed over the last 12 months. And then where it's going is going to
be like, you know, from one minute you're like, wow, chat GPT can do all of this stuff.
It's amazing. Let's use it for everything. Then you're like, it's all the same as like, like,
you know, all of the content that you're putting in is something that, or the questions
that you're asking it is the same question as your competitors asking it.
Chloe Addis (11:34.135)
So what it's giving you is that same information back. So it's kind of like, you need to,
where is like, what's going to add the difference? How is it going to help you level up
on what you're already doing, not create something from nothing because it can't.
yeah, it's so, I guess, yeah, I guess that's the answer.
Freya Ward (12:00.045)
think it's a solid answer, to be honest.
Freya Ward (12:01.887)
I think, think what's interesting with the introduction of AI is the technical skill, I think.
So the knowledge I don't think can be replaced. The experience, lived in experience,
the instinct, you know, all of those things I don't think can be replicated by AI, but the
technical experience, like Chloe, when we first worked together many years ago, do
remember we both had to learn HTML code to do microsites and landing pages and
like,
Chloe Addis (12:16.783)
Mm-hmm.
Chloe Addis (12:26.219)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (12:28.868)
Thank
Freya Ward (12:29.921)
you know, moonlighting as a very basic web designer. Not to mention for my own
MySpace and things like that, but you know, that was a time. Now, I don't think,
unless you're doing highly technical web design, then basic HTML coding and
landing page creation, things like that, that's just not a necessity. A skill that sadly I
spent far too many hours doing that is now fairly redundant.
Chloe Addis (12:52.11)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (12:56.387)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (12:59.883)
you know, inspecting source on websites to try and get the font or to get the color
that they'd used or whatever it might be to try and replicate it on your own website,
your client's landing page or whatever it might be. That's what I find really interesting,
the technical speed in which now, you you bring in a grad and they're able to just
spin it like that because they're not having to, yeah, do the…
Chloe Addis (13:13.156)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (13:26.165)
Notepad, notebook, notepad plus plus whatever it was called and the coding and
inspect source and create new landing pages and everything else.
Chloe Addis (13:29.187)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (13:33.785)
The
Chloe Addis (13:33.905)
thing is you do think they're not, you kind of put them in this category of lost skills
and then you think, well, hang on, if everything, if we suddenly weren't allowed to use
AI or any, like, you know, if everything kind of goes back, some people will need
those skills. And you kind of think it's like, it reminds me of maths at school where the
teacher's like, you're not gonna be carrying a calculator in your pocket every day.
And we're all there with like,
Chloe Addis (14:02.039)
a phone that has calculator in your pocket every day. So it's kind of like, yeah, I didn't
need to learn the triangle theories or whatever. There's something for everything
where it's like, well, we're in this world that does have the tech, so it would be stupid
to be doing it the long way. it's, yeah, again, coming back to it and looking at how this
is going to propel us forward rather than just kind of cut corners, I suppose.
Chloe Addis (14:31.161)
So yeah, so should we dive into one of the other questions that we've got on here
that we're gonna be asking our guests? So I'm just gonna pick one at random. So
here we go. So what is something that you've stopped doing in marketing? So
obviously we work as part of the kind of same marketing function, but what's
something that we've stopped doing that other marketers still swear by?
Freya Ward (15:00.641)
mean, there is a big one that we've kind of already touched upon in this
conversation.
Chloe Addis (15:03.083)
I'm
Freya Ward (15:04.518)
PPC.
Freya Ward (15:08.033)
partly because of the metrics, massively because of the metrics when it comes to the
drop off a cliff, when it comes to the PPC side of things, but that has been carried
and some by AI and LLM search. We're really proud of what we're finally seeing the
fruits of our labor, right? When it comes to the volume of work that our team has put
into good.
Chloe Addis (15:12.899)
Mm.
Freya Ward (15:34.333)
Marketing 101 like solid content creation solid SEO and really good traditional
marketing best practices that we have done from the the founding of our marketing
department. I'm so proud of that because now we're able to see metrics that matter
when it comes to how we're showing up in in what is taking over which is the AI
search world it is terrifying because
Chloe Addis (15:57.154)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (16:00.595)
as much as our objective when we set up the marketing department was to move
away from the paid side of things eventually and you know and be propped up by the
direct, the organic and everything else. We don't, this is moving really really quickly.
The direct, the organic is moving so quickly that it is terrifying to hedge your bets on
that. Whereas you know if you pay for something you know what you're getting back
to a degree or not as it turned out.
Freya Ward (16:26.377)
end of last year. I still think a lot of marketing professionals will be focusing on PPC. I
don't know if it's going to be cyclical. It's something that we obviously keep a really
close eye on in our team. yeah, that's something that we've moved away from and
we're hedging our bets elsewhere.
Chloe Addis (16:47.125)
It's some such a shift. mean, as we were saying, what are the big things, the key
things is, and I think, yes, it has a lot to do with AI and the changing landscape, zero
click, whatever, know, all of this stuff and how Google has Google ads has been
changing the structure based on AI and broad match and all of this stuff, which if it's
a headache for you, you're these terms are going to be like coming into your
Chloe Addis (17:16.099)
dreams at night. it's kind of, it's also about the, how we just aren't also being able to
track those. We were talking, you just mentioned metrics that matter, which is
something that we talk about a lot to try and help get into our brains. You know, it's
not about vanity metrics and what, which are the ones that we actually, that are
actually kind of moving the needle. But yeah, it's about
Chloe Addis (17:44.899)
It's really about how a lot of this stuff, the, the cookie-less world that we're in is, really
affecting how you track through those Google ads as well. So it does feel there's a,
as we obviously haven't completely just, you know, turned it all off because I think
that would be too much of a risk. And again, I don't think many B2B marketers would
be happy taking that risk because there is.
Chloe Addis (18:14.315)
Results that come through that you can't track and you can't see. So if you turned it
all off overnight, then you would see a bigger drop off than you might predict
because of what isn't on your sheet, basically that what you haven't been able to
kind of track through. So it kind of is a symptom of a bigger reality of not being able
to track much. And that does make most marketers really uncomfortable. So there's
like this.
Chloe Addis (18:43.811)
you know, there's always going to be a need to prove with numbers, not just words,
what you're doing. And then that's where you kind of see, you know, a reliance back
on things like, like leads and like other measures of ways to get in leads rather than
just conversions from ads and things like that, which is, yeah, it's a whole ballpark-
like there's nothing, I tend to think of it as a-
Chloe Addis (19:12.323)
whole ecosystem of marketing of what you're doing, there's nothing that you can do
over here that's not gonna affect something over here. you like you've kind of spoken
about in other podcasts that you've been on, the what funnel, like, you know, it's not
people are not following this like linear sequence. is like, you know, three years ago,
I saw you on stage at B2B marketing and then, you know, now I'm listening to your
podcast. It's not.
Chloe Addis (19:40.759)
Like those touch points are not what you want them to be. not, they didn't just get
three emails that you put in your automation and now they want to be a customer.
Freya Ward (19:50.613)
Yeah, gone are the days of linear buyer's journeys. Linear funnels, right? There are
things that you can… I think the thing that we're blessed with and something that I
really value at our company is the fact that we are agile. So we can be reactive as
much as we'd be proactive. We can pivot. And as we do, often we pivot.
Chloe Addis (19:54.369)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (20:16.289)
based on the reality of what's going on, think the hardest thing is knowing which
direction to move into when their metrics are so loose and vague. And that makes
everyone in marketing uncomfortable, right? That is, well, not just in marketing, that
makes just everybody uncomfortable when it's like, can't, you know, we can't get a
beautiful line graph that just shows the engagement and the, the,
Chloe Addis (20:28.067)
in
Freya Ward (20:43.937)
Yeah, it's the same as like, take it straight back to the most simplest analogy, the
LinkedIn algorithm, you post one day, spike in engagement, you post the next day,
crickets. Why? Like why? And that is a really good example of
Chloe Addis (20:54.711)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (20:59.785)
what is actually happening in the wider space, right? You get a flurry of leads
through one day, inbound leads coming through, but they're really poor quality. Then
you get a flurry of leads come through, inbound leads come through your website,
and they're such high quality. And it's like, let's do more of that. but they all just say
they're organic or direct or, you know, it's so loose. And I think there are things that
you can do. I know some of the things that we've implemented have started to give
us more insight into where they're coming from. And…
Chloe Addis (21:02.167)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (21:27.711)
leads us beautifully onto our next question that I'm going to ask you Chloe which is
where are you currently seeing the best signal from your audience and what are you
doing with that information?
Chloe Addis (21:38.839)
Okay signals from audiences can be picked up in all sorts of places So it used to be
like we were trying to funnel everything through Into the website. So we were like,
okay. Well, you know more anything that we do is trying to generate traffic trap that
traffic is to go to the website and then what they do from there is like, know, we'll see
downloads of ebooks or we'll see conversions into leads and that's the conversion
rate and that's you know, all and end all really to try and simplify it
Chloe Addis (22:07.843)
But I suppose a signal these days, what we,
Chloe Addis (22:11.923)
I think the most trusted signals, the most trusted information you can get is from your
customers firsthand, from your customers and clients and prospects firsthand. So
what are they actually telling you? Not just what you think from the patterns, because
there can be, like we've just mentioned, lots of kind of underlying influences that are
having a big effect on that story.
Chloe Addis (22:34.903)
But so what I mean is,
Chloe Addis (22:37.269)
is essentially their first party information that they're sending it. at the bottom of our
form, it's like, where did we hear from you? Where did you hear about us? And if
they're saying AI search in there, then that's pretty clear that that's where they've
been because you won't always necessarily be able to see that information in
Hubspot or that journey, might not be. And they might have seen you elsewhere as
well.
Chloe Addis (23:03.927)
But to them, that's the most important thing that they'll be thinking, okay, that word
they mean, what aided that conversion? Why am I here? And so, yeah, so I think
there's nothing more trustworthy than what they actually say themselves, you know,
given if they're coming to you. mean, there's a lot of that happens the other way
where they'll just, they don't want to give you the truth. But, you know, I think from…
Freya Ward (23:12.097)
Yeah. What was the hook?
Chloe Addis (23:31.691)
marketers, especially in the type of customer, the type of conversion that we see in
our marketing. That might not be the same for everyone, of course. Other people
might find that they do, it's their social comments or it's their, which again would be
kind of arguably from the customers themselves, but it might, it could be bigger
trends that they're seeing, search terms and things like this. But again, that's all to
play for at the moment where.
Chloe Addis (24:01.709)
the AI and LLMs are influencing traditional Google search terms and things like this. I
think, yeah, for me, it's all about customer centric point of view. And further into that,
can be interviewing your customers, your prospects, and kind of really get from the
horse's mouth. mean, that's kind of the marketing one I want is speak their language
of like, what are they saying? What is…
Chloe Addis (24:30.775)
the truth. And obviously, we kind of in marketing, you always have a bit of an
advantage because you can go, what do I do? What feels right to me? And start from
there to build out a picture of what are their influences and what do they want and
how did they find you to kind of build an accurate path.
Freya Ward (24:50.977)
It's such a good point though Chloe because I think a few years ago we all got taught
to shorten the forms on our contact us pages or you know ungate content all of this
the free stuff right which is the dark metrics but it is adding value it's the thought
leadership piece it's positioning of your brand which don't get me wrong I fully agree
with but the shortening of the forms meant that that collection of first-party
intelligence just
Chloe Addis (25:04.418)
Hmm.
Freya Ward (25:19.393)
was gone away with, done away with, right? And it's a really simple thing. It's such a
simple thing to just add. And it's an exchange of information. Like if I'm filling out a
contact us form on a page, is it gonna impact my experience? Is it gonna stop me
from engaging if I want them to, if I'm asking them to contact me, if it is, you know,
three pieces of information plus a, did, where did you hear about us? No, it's not, it's
not gonna put me off. I think if you've got like a 27 field form or
Freya Ward (25:48.001)
anything like that, you know, we can go too far the other way. But I just find it very
interesting because yeah, there was a real piece on, there was a real push wasn't
there in the market to, just within marketing where it was like, shorten that journey,
shorten the experience, stop asking for so much information. But that was at a time
when we could track, when we had the cookies, when we had paid metrics working
really, a paid performance was working really well and
Freya Ward (26:17.235)
all that side of things. I think we've seen in our company a really big, clear signal and
indicator by adding that field back within the form, which
Freya Ward (26:27.534)
I remember when we discussed doing it, we were both like, my goodness, why won't
we, why did we stop doing this? Like how embarrassing? Why did we, why did we
stop collecting this information and this intelligence?
Chloe Addis (26:31.766)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (26:34.498)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (26:39.764)
yeah, interesting. And it has, it has allowed us to then stop.
Freya Ward (26:46.485)
building patterns and trends and start identifying, okay, well, if this is where the high
quality conversions come in, this is the source, right? That's where we need to
optimize, which again, takes it back to metrics that matter, right? Because what
we've struggled with in the last, the back end of last year is not having.
Freya Ward (27:06.165)
that data because everything just went a little bit mental when it came to tracking and
everything else. yeah, I think just remembering marketing 101 stuff and taking it back
to basics and remembering that you're selling marketing to people even in the B2B
world. So aligning with your sales team, giving marketing access to that.
Chloe Addis (27:18.881)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (27:30.453)
customer base to survey them, ask them questions, to try and understand more
about them because we can do so much based on assumptions, but yeah, there's
nothing without a dead set piece of information and confirmation directly from the
horse's mouth, as you said. One of the fun ones that we actually didn't do at the top
of this podcast, because we forgot, was
Freya Ward (27:58.495)
I want to play around with this a little bit. Tell me Chloe that you've been in marketing
for 10 years without telling me. I'll go first. QR codes the first time and the second
time.
Chloe Addis (28:06.499)
Okay.
Chloe Addis (28:09.827)
Chloe Addis (28:13.769)
The first time and the second time. That's a funny one as well because I only
recently realised that you can make your own QR code in Microsoft Word without
going onto another website and trying to get it to do one for you. So there you go,
that's a trick that all marketers can use.
Chloe Addis (28:37.899)
If you can't figure it out, just go to the co-pilot thing that's in there now. So it's just so
easy. okay. So what would I do? Millennial, I think that obviously at the top of this
podcast, you were saying we give ourselves away by being millennials. And then
you've said things like pivot. We just just go there.
Freya Ward (28:57.249)
Yeah, you did. don't know if any.
Freya Ward (29:01.836)
I definitely picked up on the friends quote as I said pivot and I was like, how many
times can I say it? Pivot.
Chloe Addis (29:03.937)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (29:07.907)
Chloe Addis (29:11.59)
I don't know. think it's like, it's got to be something to do with with with the patterns of
human behaviour when something new comes in. So it's kind of like that, like QR
codes once and then twice. But it's like, you know, at the start of social media and
everything and they're like, no, or like that's, you know, B2B that, you know, those
ads will never work for
Chloe Addis (29:35.893)
a B2B marketing situation and then you're like, okay, look at all these companies
who are on TikTok or on, you know, Facebook ads are working really well for some
B2B companies and you're kind of like, okay, whatever, I don't know. You know,
there's always like that, but at that time where it's like, you, there's rejection, that
initial rejection, which I suppose is again, kind of going back to the marketing 101
theory, there's always like the early adopters and then, you know,
Freya Ward (30:03.648)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (30:05.089)
and it just has to kind of like be introduced and then like slowly the waves of it will be
accepted by marketers. And I think we just see the same every single time. So social
media, AI, look, it's great. fantastic. no, it kind of doesn't do what we need to We
need to find our niche. And then I think that's it really. And I suppose that is one of
these things that you can just see the patterns of.
Chloe Addis (30:34.635)
with experience. So yeah, I hope that's a good enough answer of a millennial proven
proof.
Freya Ward (30:42.081)
or even you've been around the
Freya Ward (30:46.241)
It's really true and it's the same with everything. It's the same with every
advancement in technology. It does so directly impacts marketing. know, everything
is so heavily digital now that any advancement in technology. mean, we were here
for the first cycle of marketing automation. And I remember the resistance to that. I
remember the resistance to gating and ungating your landing pages as we were
talking about earlier.
Chloe Addis (30:56.385)
Mm-hmm.
Chloe Addis (31:02.947)
I'm sorry.
Chloe Addis (31:07.095)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (31:14.805)
Yeah, the… I saw a post the other day on LinkedIn actually, just going off on a slight
tangent, which was around getting your first business card. Do remember receiving
your first pack of 250 business cards? What the hell you were gonna do with 250
business cards at that point in your career? I do not know. I mean, I scattered mine
across the local pub. I gave it to my friends, my family. I think my mom stuck it on the
fridge. Probably still there.
Chloe Addis (31:25.079)
I mean, yeah.
Freya Ward (31:39.105)
And it was again, similar, similar sort of aim where it's like, tell me you've been in
B2B marketing for 10 years plus without telling me and someone was just literally
like business cards. The first time, the second time for every promotion. I still love a
business card though. still, yeah. And I remember being so incredibly proud of my
first business card and even every single one since it's like, you don't get a
promotion and then if you don't, if you get a promotion, you don't get a business
card. It's like, it didn't actually happen.
Chloe Addis (31:51.735)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (31:54.198)
I do.
Chloe Addis (32:06.765)
Did it even exist? Absolutely. We're back to tracking things. This is proof in your
hand. You got that promotion.
Freya Ward (32:11.293)
you
Freya Ward (32:15.041)
Freya Ward (32:17.483)
This is evidence and then taking it back to QR codes. I remember when we were
agency side literally going in to pitch internally, but to pitch a concept of a business
idea to then take to the client to pitch it. myself and my colleague at the time, Janice,
we were
Freya Ward (32:36.565)
We were pitching for QR codes. It was an event and we were like, we think we
should blow up QR codes, stick them on the side of the stand at the event, at the
trade show. People can scan it and everything else. And I remember that concept
getting poo pooed massively. QR codes are out, they're gone. No one's got a QR
code scanner on their phone. You used to have to have an app to scan a QR code.
Then in came the pandemic.
Chloe Addis (32:51.767)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (32:54.602)
you
Chloe Addis (33:00.268)
I trained.
Freya Ward (33:04.24)
in came QR code and they are now still yeah championing QR codes and you don't
need a QR code scanner
Chloe Addis (33:04.397)
Mm-hmm.
Chloe Addis (33:10.403)
100 % that must have been…
Chloe Addis (33:14.823)
Yeah, exactly. Now it's just, it's second nature, isn't it? And like, yeah, you're right. I
think COVID had a really good impact on that. That must have been the pinnacle of
that Super Bowl moment where they did that act where the QR code just like the old
screensaver and then everyone's like, whoa, and it hits the corner. As it hits the
corner, that must have been your like…
Chloe Addis (33:37.909)
I knew they were coming back. You sat there at that moment like…
Freya Ward (33:39.585)
If you just hold firm for long enough, B2B Marketing will recycle and it will
Freya Ward (33:45.797)
come back around again. Exactly. I guess we've given a little bit of intel into our
working relationship and our friendship. I wonder if it would be helpful to just give a
little bit more context to, from your point of view, Chloe, what you're seeking to
achieve.
Chloe Addis (33:47.787)
Okay.
Chloe Addis (33:53.367)
Okay.
Freya Ward (34:08.737)
through this podcast.
Chloe Addis (34:11.297)
Yeah, I think it's just a really interesting conversation for us to be having. There's a
lot of B2B marketers doing podcasts, but this is kind of our, it's called Off the Record
for a reason, and it isn't just about talking campaigns and results. This is the ability
for people to come and kind of just share their honest conversation, their honest
feedback about how they're
Chloe Addis (34:40.835)
really feeling kind of a bigger, like a zoom out on the picture and to feel like, like you
said, that they're not alone in this. Loads of people are feeling exactly the same and
give that kind of ability for them to think, okay, we're on the right path. Whether it's,
okay, no one knows what they're doing or, okay, they're experiencing the same
problems as me, but we always kind of get through it. It's kind of more of a…
Chloe Addis (35:09.941)
like the emotional state of marketing, of B2B marketers. But I think that that's kind of
where the point of difference is. It will be kind of like you said, it will follow the
structure that's really highly kind of consumable, repeatable. But actually, because
people are talking about the same questions, it really will over a few episodes give
that kind of snapshot of different people experiencing the same thing within B2B.
And then
Chloe Addis (35:40.771)
Yeah, just encourage the wider conversation. think that's again, kind of as we started
the podcast talking about how you and I have conversations and they go off on
tangents and all of this, but it's we, we add to the context of what's going on in the
world and where do we then see this going and try and get out of the day to day the
like kind of the monotonous, okay, here's, here's the results. ran this campaign. This
is how many people it reached. This is, all of
Chloe Addis (36:10.389)
all of those things and kind of go okay we'll bring it back to the psychology of
marketing, what do the people care about, what are we trying to do and that might
just help bring people together a little bit and have a bit of a community around it.
Freya Ward (36:27.551)
I love that and I'm really excited for this to go to market. For anyone listening, if
you've made it this far, then thank you so much for being patient with us. We'll be
reaching out to B2B marketers, to various guests that we would love to have on the
podcast. Both Chloe and I will be hosting it not together, we'll be doing it separately,
depending on the guests, depending on the connection that we have with that guest
and how the intro's come about.
Freya Ward (36:56.161)
but we're really excited to take this forward and yeah, create a safe space for
marketing professionals to have a conversation off the record with peers in the space
and to vent a little bit of therapy, nothing wrong with a little bit of marketing therapy,
of course, but also to, yeah, a problem shared is a problem halved. And I think that's
really truly what we're trying to achieve here. Any closing remarks, Chloe?
Chloe Addis (37:10.985)
I'm stuck.
Chloe Addis (37:21.271)
Mm-hmm.
Chloe Addis (37:25.123)
I don't think so. mean, what we're going to kind of ask is, I guess we're going to be
asking kind of, okay, who else should we be talking to, to kind of expand this
conversation? So that's what we would be ordinarily asking. So maybe I'll put you on
the spot and be like, Freya, who is your… And it's not just going to be who do you
want on first or who do you want on next, but who would be the ideal person? Be
like, you know, the podcast has made it, if we could get them on our podcast.
Freya Ward (37:55.765)
my goodness, there are so many people. mean, behind the scenes, Chloe and I
have obviously been building out a list of guests that we absolutely love to have on
the show. People that we would just love to have a conversation with and get under
the hood and understand more about their experiences and everything else. If there
was one, I don't think it's fair for me to pick one single person, especially if they listen
to this and…
Chloe Addis (38:02.102)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (38:14.915)
Sorry.
Freya Ward (38:21.405)
or someone that isn't the person I'm gonna say listens to this and I reach out to them
for them to be a guest then I think you've set me up for failure here Chloe, I refuse to
answer.
Chloe Addis (38:27.075)
I'm…
Chloe Addis (38:31.332)
That's how you become the top salesperson Just don't accept anything you don't
think is gonna work.
Freya Ward (38:38.717)
Exactly that. Expectations, setting
Freya Ward (38:42.439)
No, I don't know. think I would love to, I'd love to speak to someone that is heading
up like a community, the development of a community in the B2B marketing space. I
think the marketing of a community is really, really interesting. And I'd be really
interested to see how they're building their audience, what signals they're seeing
from their target audience and ICP.
Chloe Addis (38:50.883)
Okay. Yeah.
Freya Ward (39:06.729)
I would love to speak to somebody that is in one of the top enterprise tech
businesses, like the top five, because I'd love to understand how different that might
be from, is PPC still something that's mega for them? Are they seeing huge benefit
from events and trade shows? What is lead generation and digital lead generation a
big part that is making up their buyer's journey?
Chloe Addis (39:18.413)
Mm-hmm.
Freya Ward (39:30.195)
I'd love to speak with someone that is experimenting with cross cell and up cell
targeting when it comes to ABM and things like that. I think that that would be an
interesting conversation to understand.
Freya Ward (39:40.929)
you know, if they're a pure play ABM marketer, what has changed for them in the last
12 months? Are they having to expand or are they, like lots of the clients I speak
with, are really now focusing in on their existing customer base, but cross selling and
upselling and expanding their footprint inside of those key accounts. So yeah, I don't,
there's not one single individual. I think I'd just like to get a variety of conversations
because I would really like to start.
Freya Ward (40:08.181)
comparing people's experiences, I guess, not in a competitive way, but in a, wow,
that's really different in that industry than this industry inside of the B2B tech
community. I'd like a bit of faith that PPC is working somewhere. I'd love someone
that is focused on, you maybe their agency side and an SEO company and their…
Chloe Addis (40:19.501)
Yeah.
Chloe Addis (40:23.153)
Thank
Freya Ward (40:34.185)
Yes, selling to marketers, but how are they packaging the SEO side of things? And
what difference are they seeing when it comes to engagement? Are they having to
expand their agency services to include AI integration, for example? Not necessarily
diving into the trade secrets and the sensitive information, but like how is their
targeting for their ICP changing based on what's going on in the macro and micro
environment?
Chloe Addis (40:45.357)
Yeah.
Freya Ward (40:58.869)
So my wishlist is quite long, but hopefully we'll make for some very interesting
conversations. How about you? Who would you love to see on the pod?
Chloe Addis (41:00.577)
That is my long vest.
Chloe Addis (41:06.893)
So I would like to get people that again are in like in marketing, doing the marketing
and I want to see, to have conversations that touch a little bit on the technical side in
some instances of like, cause you know, my kind of realm is the higher view that that
kind of like strategy and although it does encompass all parts obviously as you can
imagine kind of.
Chloe Addis (41:36.287)
making sure that everything is on the same path and you've got kind of a cohesive
plan and all of that kind of thing. So I think what's really interesting is actually
sometimes conversations that do get down in the dirt with kind of tips and tricks and
things like that, that's kind of like, okay, I see the foundations of what is driving what
we're seeing and, you know, things like that. you know, potentially, like you said,
marketers that are within
Chloe Addis (42:06.101)
marketing tech, things like this, because that's, it's just, it's just really useful to kind
of, you always see people talking about, I've got this system that doesn't integrate
with that system and like real marketer problems. But actually from the other
perspective.
Freya Ward (42:23.521)
It's more-
Freya Ward (42:26.005)
Some more on like the OP side.
Chloe Addis (42:28.323)
Yeah, I guess so because
Chloe Addis (42:29.683)
that's yeah. Yeah. I think if you've got great ops team and you know, the all
marketing ops are down, then there's frustrating problems, like less kind of like real
brain problems to dig into. So yeah, marketing ops is, is interesting.
Freya Ward (42:46.613)
Hmm, interesting indeed. Well, I'm excited to see who joins the podcast next. This
has been really fun. Thank you so much, Chloe. We could literally, we could talk for
hours. So I think it's best that we don't cover all five of the questions and we just
keep a few. But running along a similar thread, I think this is a podcast for B2B
marketers by B2B marketers. It is…
Chloe Addis (42:56.331)
Yeah, I'm excited.
Freya Ward (43:15.689)
to get into the mindset of others in the space, to share peer stories and yeah,
hopefully get some hacks along the way because we love a hack. We love the QR
code creation in Microsoft Word by way of example. We love.
Chloe Addis (43:29.059)
Unless
Chloe Addis (43:33.734)
I'm gonna find out now I'm the last to the party everyone knows this
Freya Ward (43:39.049)
QR code
Freya Ward (43:39.66)
generator.com has been has been held up propped up purely by Chloe Addis.
Chloe Addis (43:42.211)
you
Chloe Addis (43:45.123)
Chloe Addis (43:47.154)
Yeah, absolutely.
Freya Ward (43:49.355)
Amazing. Thank you so much and catch you next
